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Interview with George Mitchell; Novak Zone: Interview with Tom Sherlock

Aired November 13, 2004 - 09:00   ET


TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone, from the CNN Center. This is CNN SATURDAY MORNING. It is November 13. I'm Tony Harris.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway. Thank you very much for joining us.

And if you're just waking up, on the West Coast it is very early, 6:00 a.m.

But let's get started with the day's top stories.

CALLAWAY: U.S. forces are going door-to-door to clear out the remaining troublemakers in Falluja. A major offensive launched just days ago has left 22 U.S. and Iraqi troops dead, along with about 1,000 insurgents. Meanwhile, more troops are heading to Mosul to battle new fighting there. The latest from Falluja is coming up in two minutes.

Meanwhile, Scott Peterson has been convicted of murder. He was found guilty of first-degree murder in the death of his wife, Laci, and second-degree murder in the death of her -- of their unborn son. He could face the death penalty. We get the details from Court TV's Lisa Bloom in five minutes.

And as the fighting rages in Falluja, security concerns linger elsewhere in Iraq. Iraq's interim government says it has no immediate plans to reopen Baghdad's international airport to commercial traffic. Officials closed it earlier this week, fearing reprisals from the Falluja offensive.

John McLaughlin, the number two man at the CIA, is retiring amid some internal conflicts. In a statement Friday, the 32-year-old agency veteran said that it is time to move onto other endeavors. He took over the CIA temporarily in July when George Tenet retired.

HARRIS: And here's what we have coming up for you this hour.

The secrets of Arlington National Cemetery are unveiled in The Novak Zone.

Also, we get an up-close look at human price of war from the men and the women who have been on the front lines.

And Bush cabinet members continue to resign. Is the secretary of state waiting for his turn? We'll look at the signals Colin Powell is sending.

Now, here's what's happening at this hour.

CALLAWAY: The battle for Falluja isn't over, but 1,000 insurgents have been killed there, according to the latest reports.

And CNN's Jane Arraf is in the wartorn city, embedded with the U.S. Army. She says all that's left now is a small group of insurgents cornered by U.S. troops. But we need to warn you that some of the following pictures are disturbing.


JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Military commanders on the ground tell us that they believe they've cornered the insurgents here in this small section in the southeast of Falluja. This was thought to be a stronghold of the Zarqawi network. And on this block alone, they found five houses with major weapons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right here, we breached right here. We found an RPG right outside, and this door was already open, so we didn't have to breach it. So we just kicked down the door. I sent my Alpha team up this way. They secured the stairwell, and we saw multiple doors this point in time.

We had security up and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here, an Alpha team, they stacked up right here, and at that point in time before they went in, they saw this guy right here, they engaged him. He was standing up. It was pretty dark in here. He came in there after we engaged him. We saw the vehicle here, so we know the vehicles are a big taboo here because of the vehicle-borne ID threat.

So we came up here, we knew (UNINTELLIGIBLE) finish clearing. We also had clearing going on in the rest of the rooms, nothing that showed up here. We had this guy down, so we came up right here, to go inspect what the car had and finish clearing the garage.

As we came in here, we noticed when they started clearing, right away we saw the diska (ph) mounted on the gun truck here, sort of recoilless rifle, and that's when we started noticing we had, also had RPGs.

Cleared this area, took a little caution here because of vehicle- borne ID threat. We pretty much have secured the area, finished clearing right here, and then called it up what was going on. Then we started securing all the weapons.


CALLAWAY: Jane Arraf is joining us now on the phone. She's in Falluja now.

Jane, incredible video that you have brought to us today. And it seems like such an impossible task, a city the size of St. Louis, going door-to-door looking for insurgents. How far along are they in this task? ARRAF (on phone): In terms of sort of the heavy lifting of this battle, Cathy, they're pretty far along. In fact, the Army that we're with, with the armorous tank that's been paving the way for those other -- for the other tasks of this fight, essentially believe there is only one sector of the city that they have to get into. But that is perhaps one of the most problematic sectors.

They believe that insurgents have been cornered into a small square just 100 meters by 500 meters in the southeast section of town. They're going in, dropping bombs with artillery, they're going in with machine guns. They're doing everything they can to make sure that, before they leave, the insurgency is as reduced as possible, Cathy.

CALLAWAY: What has been the biggest task for these troops over the last six or seven hours? Has it been trying to determine the insurgents from the civilians?

ARRAF: That's an interesting question. There are -- it makes it a bit easier that there are, very strangely, no civilians in these sectors. We have gone from north to south on the east side, and it is really very eerie. All the civilians apparently have been chased away by the insurgents weeks ago, perhaps.

Instead, the insurgents have used these buildings, these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) spaces, to build bunkers and hiding places, improvised bombs, suicide bombs, and almost every block the soldiers are coming across something like that.

The bigger difficulty, Cathy, is all this friendly fire, making sure that they do not attack their own troops. There are Iraqi forces involved here. There are Marines, there are Army, there's a variety of forces. And the absence of civilians, that (UNINTELLIGIBLE), perhaps, Cathy.

CALLAWAY: What about suspects being held, these possible insurgents that are being captured, any idea how many?

ARRAF: Well, we spoke with a Marine commander this morning who told us that they had been surrendering, perhaps several dozen have been surrendering. We don't have an exact count. But he says they're coming forward in groups of five and even up to a dozen.

These basically appear to be cells. These are mostly Iraqi fighters. The hard-core foreign fighters are holding their ground. They are, in fact, fighting to the death in most cases. But given the heavy firepower that they've come in here with, it clearly would intimidate some of the less committed of the insurgents. And those are the people who have been surrendering, and those are the people who perhaps will provide valuable information, Cathy.

CALLAWAY: All right, Jane, thank you. That's Jane Arraf, embedded with troops in Falluja. Thanks, Jane.

HARRIS: Final respects for the longtime leader of the Palestinians. In the West Bank this morning, saying good-bye to Yasser Arafat. Palestinian officials and ordinary citizens are streaming past his tomb.

Meantime. top Palestinian officials are looking to the future. They say they plan to hold elections for a new leader before January 9.

The Middle East and its future was one key topic of discussion during the meeting between President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair yesterday. The two leaders met in the White House.

For more, we turn to CNN's Elaine Quijano live in Washington. Good morning, Elaine.


That's right, President Bush reaffirmed his commitment to the road map for peace in the Middle East. His vision calls for a two- state solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Now, the president's meeting with British Prime Minister Tony Blair had already been scheduled before the death of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. But, of course, that development brought a new sense of urgency to the issue.

Appearing before reporters in the East Room of the White House, along with Mr. Blair, President Bush expressed optimism about seeing two states existing side by side before the end of his second term. And both leaders also made clear they support Palestinian elections to choose a new president within the next 60 days.


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our sympathies are with the Palestinian people as they begin a period of mourning. Yet the months ahead offer a new opportunity to make progress toward a lasting peace. Soon Palestinians will choose a new president. This is the first step in creating lasting democratic political institutions through which a free Palestinian people will elect local and national leaders.


QUIJANO: Now, the president and the prime minister also discussed Iraq. Britain, of course, remains the U.S.'s staunchest ally in the military efforts there. Mr. Bush says substantial progress is being made in fighting Iraqi insurgents, and for his part, Mr. Blair says that his country's objectives line up with the U.S.'s, and that is why he says he continues to stand with the president in fighting a larger war on terror, Tony.

HARRIS: Well, Elaine, you reported to us last hour that deputy McLaughlin is leaving at the CIA. Is there any more to this? Is there a backstory to this? Or are we to take him at his word that this is for personal reasons?

QUIJANO: Well, there is a published report out there. First we should tell you Deputy CIA Director John McLaughlin announced yesterday he would be retiring from the CIA after more than 30 years. Now, that despite a report in "The Washington Post" that says he is resigning amid some internal conflict.

Now, a CIA spokesman says that McLaughlin will be going into the agency's retirement program. And in a statement released yesterday, McLaughlin himself said, quote, "I have come into the purely personal decision that it is time to move on to other endeavors after serving as deputy director of Central Intelligence for more than four years and briefly in recent months as acting director."

But Tony, you're right, a lot now being made of this published report in "The Washington Post," which looks to former CIA officials talking about the internal strife at the CIA as perhaps leading to this announcement by McLaughlin.

But again, a CIA spokesman, as well as McLaughlin himself, say that this is a retirement, not a resignation, Tony.

HARRIS: Hey, Elaine Quijano at the White House. Elaine, thank you.

Is peace even possible in the Middle East? A question for former U.S. senator turned peace negotiator George Mitchell. He joins us live from New York in just a few minutes here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

CALLAWAY: A guilty verdict and cheers. That was the scene at a California courthouse yesterday after a jury convicted Scott Peterson. A crowd of people who had gathered outside heard an audio feed of that verdict. And here's how it all played out.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "State of California versus Scott Peterson. We, the jury, in the above-entitled cause find the defendant, Scott B. Peterson, guilty of the crime of murder."





CALLAWAY: Of course, the scene inside the courtroom was very different. Peterson showed no emotion as the jury found him guilty of first-degree murder in the death of his pregnant wife, Laci, with special circumstances. That means that he could face the death penalty. The jury found him guilty of second-degree murder in the death of his unborn son.

Now, you heard the cheers from the crowd outside of the courthouse. But are legal analysts cheering the verdict?

Court TV's Lisa Bloom is covering the Scott Peterson trial. She's joining us from New York this morning. Good morning to you.

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Good morning. CALLAWAY: It would be an understatement to say that this has been an emotional trial. Of course, how could it not be, with the murder of a pregnant woman?


CALLAWAY: But did emotion play, you think, or have a play, in the jury's decision?

BLOOM: I don't think it was an emotional decision at all. I think it was based on the evidence. I think the evidence was clearly beyond a reasonable doubt, and the jury saw that, even though there were upheavals in the jury this week, two of them getting kicked off the jury, they came to the right decision in the end.

I think there's a deep sense of satisfaction. We saw it there in the people cheering, especially among women. I mean, I think there was a great concern across the country that this lying, slick, arrogant guy with his high-priced legal team might walk free, just like another accused double murderer did 10 years ago, O.J. Simpson.

And this verdict goes a long way to repairing some of the damage to the criminal justice system that's been done in some of these high- profile cases.

Scott Peterson is now a convicted double murderer, and he's facing the death penalty.

CALLAWAY: Let's listen to Ron Frey on "LARRY KING" last night talking about how he felt when the verdict was read.


RON FREY, AMBER FREY'S FATHER: We were just upset. It was so hard. We were crying, sir.

LARRY KING, HOST: Crying over the fact he was found guilty?

FRY: Well, just that -- guilty, it -- just the conclusion, it just -- I don't know why, but we were all crying. It was very, very hard for everybody. Maybe it's because it's putting a legal meaning to that he's officially guilty now.


CALLAWAY: And, of course, that was Amber's father, Ron.

He also said to Larry last night that he's spent of this past two years really trying to help the prosecution. What did he mean by that?

FRY: Well, that's a good question. You know, Ron Frey is the outspoken father of Amber Frey, who was the key witness in this case.

And look, this is the day to congratulate the prosecution, not to criticize them. They've taken a lot of hits over the last five months of this trial, but it turns out that their strategy prevailed, that and hundreds of law enforcement officers who were also attacked by the defense throughout the pretrial proceedings and this trial. All of these hardworking, unsung heroes deserve our praise today for getting the outcome that I think most people think is the right one.

CALLAWAY: And it's not over yet. Lisa Bloom, thank you very much, with Court TV. Thank you.

Well, you've been watching the trial. What do you think? It's our morning e-mail question. Did Scott Peterson get a fair trial? Just drop us a line at We'll read some of those to you in just a few minutes.

HARRIS: Well, Catherine, to many, he was the roadblock to peace in the Middle East. So what now, since Yasser Arafat is no more? Can the peace process move forward?

A question for a man who's no stranger to tough negotiations, former U.S. senator George Mitchell live here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

CALLAWAY: And good morning, San Francisco. Rob Marciano will have the forecast for the last day of the American Indian Film Festival coming up, an annual event dedicated to preserving the heritage of Native Americans.

Stay with us, everyone.


CALLAWAY: Checking the top stories this morning, death or life in prison without parole, that's what's left to decide in the Scott Peterson murder trial. A California jury convicted him yesterday of killing his wife, Laci, and their unborn child.

Iraq's national security adviser says the battle to retake Falluja is all but finished. Only a few pockets of resistance remain. The Iraqi official says 1,000 insurgents were killed and 200 were captured. The latest count shows 22 American troops were killed and about 170 injured.

Baghdad's airport will remain closed to commercial traffic until further notice. A spokesman for the interim prime minister cites security concerns and fear of retaliation for the assault on Falluja.

HARRIS: Does the death of Yasser Arafat signal a new era for Mideast peace efforts? Or do the Israelis and Palestinians face an even more uncertain future? U.S. officials viewed him as a hostile figure, but will his eventual replacement fare any better?

Former U.S. senator George Mitchell helped Northern Ireland reach an historic peace pact. He joins us from New York with his perspective on the chances for peace between the Israelis and Palestinians.

Senator, good to see you. Good morning.


HARRIS: Well, give me your sense. If the world was waiting for a clear indication from President Bush yesterday in his briefing with Prime Minister Tony Blair that the president was willing to move forward in this process in a more aggressive way, did the world hear it?

MITCHELL: Yes, the words are right, and I believe the intention is there. Cynics, of course, will say that both have said the same thing several times before, and not much is happening.

But I think this time is different. I think the circumstances are different, and there is real opportunity now. Of course, there's a lot of challenge to it. It won't be easy, but I think it can be done.

HARRIS: I want to talk about that opportunity in a moment. But I also was left with the sense that President Bush was clearly still moving the ball back into the Palestinians' court. Did you have that sense?

MITCHELL: Well, I think that's part of the problem, and I think that must be addressed in how they proceed. But I think also it will take effort by all concerned, Israel, the United States, and others who support peace in the region.

There's an enormous task for the Palestinians, first to have an effective transition of leadership, second to get leaders who are empowered to reach agreement and to implement an agreement. That's very easy to say, extremely difficult to do, particularly right now in the emotional circumstances that exist following the death of Arafat.

HARRIS: You know, I also have this sense that everyone agrees that there's a real opportunity here. But your experience in Northern Ireland seems to indicate that this will take some time, that folks need to be patient with this.

MITCHELL: It will take time, and the most important unanswered question about the administration and all others who support this effort is whether they have the perseverance, the staying power to stick with it through what will inevitably be setbacks. Making peace is not for the tentative or the timid. It takes endurance. And there will be many setbacks. I think the most important thing we can do is to get started and make it very clear, beyond any doubt, that we're there to stay until the job is done.

HARRIS: Mahmoud Abbas appears to be the front-runner of the next president. What is your sense of him, and whether or not he will be able to deliver on the peace that eluded Arafat?

MITCHELL: Well, he has a tremendous task in front of him. First, of course, he does not have the broad base of support that Arafat had. In fact, there's simply no comparison. The Palestinians, they've never known another leader than Arafat.

Secondly, however, Abbas served as prime minister before the current prime minister, and I think there's a wide recognition among both American and Israeli officials that they failed to help him enough to establish himself. They really, ironically, are the only ones who can empower him by doing things to give the impression to the Palestinian people that they benefit from his leadership.

I think now there is the chance that that will happen. He's a credible person, but it's going to be very difficult for him, and we have to recognize that and provide what assistance we can.

HARRIS: And is it your sense that Yasser Arafat simply stayed on the stage too long, and couldn't deliver on his promises?

MITCHELL: Well, I've never met a political leader who didn't want to stay as long as he or she could. And all of them, of course, seek to identify their personal interests with the national interest. In fact, they almost all persuade themselves that their personal interest is identical with the national interest.

So in that, I don't think he's different from anybody else. But when the United States, following Israel, refused to deal with him, I think it was clear that nothing was going to happen until he left the scene one way or the other. And this now does create an opportunity.

HARRIS: Senator Mitchell, good to see you. Thanks for taking the time to talk with us this morning. Thank you very much.

MITCHELL: Thanks for having me.

HARRIS: It is a moving exhibit with artifacts from every war America has been in. An emotional journey through time, coming up on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

CALLAWAY: Plus, the secrets of Arlington National Cemetery unveiled in The Novak Zone. It's all ahead.


ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And good morning, San Francisco. The West Coast love for you, Northern California picture. There's the Bay Bridge. Little So-Cal for you, throwback to the '70s. Brett, guitar man, good looking day out West.


MARCIANO: Nights are getting longer, and they're getting colder as well.


MARCIANO: Back to you guys in the studio.

HARRIS: OK, Rob, thank you.

CALLAWAY: Well, we have heard the rumors for months now, will he or won't he? Colin Powell watch right here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. HARRIS: Plus, the intrigue of Arlington National Cemetery, stories you may never have heard about who may be the most famous gravesite in the country.


CALLAWAY: Arlington National Cemetery, always in the spotlight on Veterans Day. But do you know what secrets lay inside this sacred ground?

HARRIS: Ah, we'll find out. Welcome back. That story's coming up.

First, here's what's happening now in the news.

After months of testimony and a parade of witnesses, a jury of his peers says Scott Peterson is guilty of murdering his wife and unborn son. The jury is taking a week off now before hearing testimony in the sentencing phase. Peterson could get the death penalty.

In the Middle East, flags and flowers, prayers and praise this morning in the West Bank. Many are remembering Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. A steady stream of mourners are paying their final respects by visiting the Ramallah compound where Arafat was buried. Visitors included several Palestinian leaders who laid wreaths at Arafat's grave.

Iraq's national security adviser says the military offensive in Falluja is almost finished, and most of the city is now liberated. U.S.-led troops have taken their fight against insurgent holdouts to the southern part of the city. Now there are plans to bring in water and food to civilians.

The symptoms, chronic fatigue, migraines. and memory loss. So what exactly causes Gulf War illness? The government now says it's not simply stress. In a reversal, of course, the Veterans Affairs Department is no longer suggesting that stress is most likely the cause of Gulf War illness. Instead, the agency will now focus on toxic substances troops encountered during the Gulf War.

CALLAWAY: Most Americans know that John F. Kennedy is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. Do you know the only other president buried there? Or which big screen actor was also a decorated World War II hero?

Find out the answers in this week's edition of The Novak Zone.


ROBERT NOVAK, HOST, THE NOVAK ZONE: Welcome to The Novak Zone.

We're at the visitors' center at the Arlington National Cemetery, honoring Veterans Day this week with the historian of the cemetery, Tom Sherlock. Mr. Sherlock, this is the 83rd Veterans Day. The mural or the photograph balcony shows the first one, when they buried the Unknown Soldier. President Bush presided this week over the ceremony. Is that still a attraction that gets a lot of people here?

TOM SHERLOCK, HISTORIAN, ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY: Oh, yes, it does. It's one of the two days here in Arlington Cemetery we can expect our largest crowds. Of course, Veterans Day, and then also Memorial Day, the 30th of May. Both of those days commemorate very, very special times for American veterans. Of course, on November 11, 1921, an unknown soldier from World War I was interred here. And that was the very first Veterans Day celebrated in Arlington.

NOVAK: Mr. Sherlock, you've been the historian here for 29 years. Tell us a little of the background of how this, one of the most beautiful places in Washington just across the Potomac River from the Capitol, how did this get to be our national cemetery?

SHERLOCK: Well, like many great things, it had humble beginnings. This land was once owned by the, first, the father-in- law, then the wife of General Robert E. Lee, and in 1863, the United States Army began to bury soldiers here. Certainly...

NOVAK: During the Civil War.

SHERLOCK: During the Civil War, sir, yes. There was nine Army hospitals here in Washington, D.C., and at that time, if you were sick enough, when you were sick enough to go to the hospital, you probably weren't going to survive. And the local cemeteries were exhausted very quickly.

And as a matter of fact, it was a very political issue at that time. The press was saying that the dead were being buried like cordwood outside of these hospitals. So there was a lot of pressure to establish a place. And the first burial took place here on May 13 of 1864. And by the end of the Civil War, so roughly nine more months, there were 7,000 Union and Confederate graves here.

NOVAK: And they just took the property away from losers in the Civil War.


SHERLOCK: Basically yes.


SHERLOCK: The -- it was done under a guise of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to pay a federal tax in 1862. But ultimately, after the war, the Lees' eldest son would file suit against the government and won that suit, as when that Supreme Court would decide in his favor. However, at this time now, there is almost 25,000 burials here, and it would be impractical to remove them. So they were compensated with the market value state at that time, which was $150,000.

NOVAK: Mr. Sherlock, everybody knows the, that John F. Kennedy is buried here, the eternal flame. But I think a lot of Americans don't know there is another president buried here. Who is it, and why is he buried here?

SHERLOCK: Yes, that's other president is William Howard Taft. And the president of the United States, as commander in chief of the United States armed forces, is eligible. President Taft is also very unique in American history for another aspect. He's the only man in our history ever to head two branches of the government. Of course, the executive branch while president, and after being president, he was the chief justice of the United States Supreme Court.

NOVAK: There's a lot of people buried here that that surprise people. Let's tell them about some of them. Heavyweight boxing champion of the world, Joe Louis.

SHERLOCK: Joe Louis, yes, he was buried here in 1984. Joe Louis was in the United States Army in World War II, serving in morale support boxing exhibition, very, very important. He was not eligible through military service in today's criteria. But at that time, President Ronald Reagan, because it was great ambassadorship to the world, and I, and the support he'd given to our troops in World War II, made him eligible.

NOVAK: And Lee Marvin, the actor who played in a lot of war movies, "The Dirty Dozen," everybody's seen that, but he was a real soldier, wasn't he?

SHERLOCK: Yes, he was, actually a real Marine. He was a United States Marine, earned the Purple Heart, and is buried right next to Joe Louis, as a matter of fact.

NOVAK: Is that right?

SHERLOCK: They're neighbors. And so certainly some of that bravado that we just saw displayed in the movies was based through his own life.

NOVAK: And Glenn Miller, the bandleader, is buried here?

SHERLOCK: That's true. Actually, not buried here. He was on a flight for a mission that, from Europe, from England in World War II, and the flight failed to return, so he's actually missing in action. But in cases like that, we can erect memorial stones with the individual's name on it, and he has one of those stones here, yes.

NOVAK: I understand there was a buried heroes, Abner Doubleday, who was reputed to invented baseball. I think that's a bogus story. So how was he eligible?

SHERLOCK: I agree, the, he's been given some of the credit for inventing baseball but probably did not. Abner Doubleday was a Civil War general, through the Civil War, and would use the game of baseball with his troops as a diversion, and that's where some of the attachment to baseball came about.

NOVAK: The most beautiful vantage point for any of the graves is for Pierre L'Enfant, who was the designer of Washington, D.C. So his grave overlooks his great work. But Pierre L'Enfant was a Frenchman, wasn't he? How is he buried here?

SHERLOCK: Yes, Pierre L'Enfant was a Frenchman, but he was also an engineer in the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War. And that made him eligible. And he certainly does have the most commanding and beautiful views. Matter of fact, written on his grave, his head marker, in Latin is the translation of "If a greater monument is needed, look around and see."

NOVAK: There's one thing that, looking over material, that I was really surprised about was that there are Confederate soldiers buried here. That would be something that would please my Southern wife.

SHERLOCK: Yes, there are 474, to be exact, Confederate soldiers, and these were soldiers buried alongside their Union counterparts during the Civil War. And Arlington at that time was a potter's field. It had none of its attachments that it does to today. And it was just -- they were buried here out of necessity. They died in the sames hospitals. And originally they were buried throughout the cemetery.

But in 1914, when we dedicated our Confederate memorial here, they were exhumed from one, from all the locations and buried to one area, which we now call Jackson Circle.

NOVAK: And now the big question for Tom Sherlock, historian of the Arlington National Cemetery.

Mr. Sherlock, you're burying 27 people a day here. There's 250,000 now buried here. This is not unlimited, the amount of space. Do you have a space problem coming up now at Arlington National Cemetery?

SHERLOCK: Well, actually, on land that we already have, we have room for about 20 more years, even expecting this pace to increase as World War II-age veterans are dying. We also are in the process for acquiring additional adjoining lands here at Arlington. And if all goes well that we hope that it will, and it looks like it's going to, we'll have room for approximately 70 more years.

NOVAK: Seventy more years?

SHERLOCK: That's right.

NOVAK: So you're not going to change the restrictions on who gets...

SHERLOCK: No, sir. I believe that they've become as restrictive as they will.

NOVAK: Tom Sherlock, thank you very much.

And thank you for being in The Novak Zone.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CALLAWAY: And you can see more of Bob Novak at 7:00 p.m. Eastern time on "THE CAPITAL GANG." "THE GANG" will be joined by South Dakota Senator-elect John Thune, who ousted Democratic minority leader Tom Daschle in this year's election.

Here are some stories from across America.

In Rochester, New Hampshire, a woman and her boyfriend are accused of forcing their way into a church in a bizarre plan to sacrifice her three children on the altar. The boys, ages 2, 7, and 9, were not hurt, and they were placed in state custody.

In Miami, police are defending the use of a taser gun on a 6- year-old boy. The unruly youngster apparently broke a picture frame in his principal's office and then waved a shard of glass at a security guard. When he then began to cut himself, one officer tasered him, and the other caught him as he fell.

In San Diego, at the Mexico border, U.S. agents discovered a young girl sealed inside this pinata. Smugglers had also hidden the girl's mother in the car's trunk and stashed a brother under a collapsible seat. All were unharmed, and they were returned to Mexico.

HARRIS: Artifacts of U.S. wars past and present are among the items in a new walk-through exhibit at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History. But it's the people are honored, the Americans who fought the wars and those who are still fighting them, that make the exhibit so compelling.

Here are some scenes from "The Price of Freedom: Americans at War."


GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: From the Revolutionary War to the global war on terrorism, America's sons and daughters have indeed paid the very high price of freedom. We must remember that war is never glorious, that's it's a terrible thing and brutal and tragic.

And the people whose stories are told in this exhibit, and the countless American graves around the world, serve as reminders of the willingness, the willingness to bear this burden of defending liberty.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are 150,000 Americans in Vietnam.


MAJ. JIM NEWMAN (RET.), VIETNAM VETERAN: This aircraft means a lot, being in here, not just because it was the aircraft I got shot up in Vietnam, but because it is the aircraft we used in Vietnam. It means a lot to all the veterans, and they'll be able to talk about experiences there that they never were able to before. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shows history at, maybe not at its best but its worst, what -- the things we had to do to be here now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would show just the bad side of what we have to do to be free.



CALLAWAY: At 15 before the hour, here's a look at morning headlines.

Testimony in the penalty phase of the Scott Peterson trial begins November 22. A jury convicted Peterson of first-degree murder for his wife's death and second-degree murder in the death of their unborn son.

And a somber mood in Ramallah as mourners pay their last respects to Yasser Arafat. Elections for his successor are tentatively scheduled for January.

HARRIS: Iraq's national security adviser says the military offensive in Falluja is almost finished. He says all but a few pockets of the city are liberated from insurgents.

Reality TV shows help make it a business so lucrative, so enticing, some unlikely medical professionals are joining the party. We're talking about plastic surgery.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Undereye lift, a nose job, liposuction under her jaw, a chin implant, and the fat was removed from her cheeks.


HARRIS: So now we have dentists offering reconstructive face surgery, dermatologists performing liposuction. Is this a good thing? Plastic surgery on the examination table tomorrow on "CNN SUNDAY MORNING" at 9:00 a.m. Eastern.

Will Education Secretary Rod Paige be the Bush cabinet member to go? Two senior administration officials tell CNN Paige plans to leave his cabinet position, but they will not say if has submitted a resignation letter. Paige is a stout advocate of the Bush school reform plan, No Child Left Behind. He once called the teacher's union "a terrorist organization" because it opposed the plan.

A parting shot from John Ashcroft. The outgoing attorney general blasted what he called second-guessing by activist judges. Addressing the Federalist Society, Ashcroft said those judges interfere with the Bush administration's handling of prisoners in the war on terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The latitude and discretion reserved for the president under our Constitution must of course be of great -- be greatest in the areas of national security and foreign relations, especially during times of war and national crisis.


HARRIS: ACLU executive director Anthony Romero says Ashcroft's comments show his clear disdain for the rule of law.

CALLAWAY: So the guessing game in Washington now turns to Secretary of State Colin Powell and his plans. It has been widely expected that he would not want to serve a second term. But yesterday we learned that he may soon meet with new the Palestinian leaders.

CNN State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel takes a look at the mixed signals.


ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He was greeted like a rock star four years ago when he arrived at Foggy Bottom. Polls have ranked him the most popular member of the Bush cabinet. Yet more than a week after the election, Secretary of State Colin Powell's future is still unknown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, today you met with your secretary of state. Do you want him to stick around to lead your efforts to revive the Middle East peace process?

BUSH: I'm proud of my secretary of state. He's done a heck of a good job.

KOPPEL: President Bush won't say if he wants his top diplomat to stick around. Neither will Powell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE), could you elaborate on your plans for a second term?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long are you going to be here?

KOPPEL: Last May, Powell played coy.


KING: Everyone is saying if Mr. Bush is reelected, you will not stay. True?

POWELL: I serve at the pleasure of the president.


KOPPEL: In an interview Friday, Powell said the president is now reviewing his cabinet lineup, and a decision will come soon. "It is his second term coming up," said Powell, "and he will be examining his cabinet and making whatever announcements he decides he should make in the days ahead."

But now, with an opportunity for a fresh start on Middle East peace in the wake of Yasser Arafat's death, and with elections looming in Iraq, Powell's aides suggest he might want to stay a little longer.

Considered a moderate voice in the president's cabinet, Powell has often butted heads with his more hawkish colleagues but has always carried out the president's policies, even when he disagreed.

(on camera): So if and when Powell should leave, who would replace him? Speculation abounds, but the name floated most frequently by administration officials and Republican pundits alike is national security adviser Condoleezza Rice. It's unclear, though, if Ms. Rice even wants the job.

Andrea Koppel, CNN, at the State Department.


HARRIS: Well, it's a question we've been asking you all morning. Did Scott Peterson get a fair trial? Your e-mail answers ahead on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

Hey, Rob.

MARCIANO: Hey, Tony.

From the CNN Weather Center, this a live shot of Chicago. Little Van Halen playing in the background for you. Maybe Saturday morning. you may not want to jump out of bed, but give it a go. Should be a nice day in many spots. Chicago looking at a beautiful day with temperatures getting close to 50 degrees. We'll talk more about the forecast possibly in your city in just a few minutes.

CNN SATURDAY MORNING will be right back.


HARRIS: From Atlanta, let's send you out to Washington, D.C., and to Elaine Quijano in Washington for a preview of this week's "ON THE STORY." Good morning, Elaine.


We are "ON THE STORY" from here in Washington, to the Peterson trial in California, to the battlefield in Iraq. Kimberly Osias joins us from Redwood City on yesterday's guilty verdict for Scott Peterson. Barbara Starr and Jane Arraf are "ON THE STORY" of the fight for Falluja. Andrea Koppel looks at the Middle East after Arafat. Christine Romans is "ON THE STORY" of safety questions about rushing new drugs to market. And I'll talk about changes in the Bush administration. All coming up, all "ON THE STORY." Tony?

HARRIS: All right, Elaine, thank you. See you soon. CALLAWAY: All morning long, we've been asking you your thoughts on the Scott Peterson trial. Did he receive a fair trial? And boy...

HARRIS: We've been flooded, yes.

CALLAWAY: ... hundreds of -- yes, hundreds e-mail.

Here's one from RELATIONSHIPS. "Your coverage of the Peterson trial is embarrassing. Not that you haven't exhausted every angle and aspect, but the mere fact that you afford it so much real estate."

HARRIS: All right. "Yes, he and his attorney got a fair trial. The rest of America did not. When is part two of the trial show, or will this go on for another two, three years as the Scott Peterson's judgment show? Concerned CNN News connoisseur and viewer, tired about hearing about this old dead dog show."

CALLAWAY: We hear you. We hear you. Thank you (UNINTELLIGIBLE) sending in your e-mail this morning.

Let's go to Rob, check in the forecast for the weekend.

MARCIANO: Hi, Catherine.



HARRIS: Hey, man.

MARCIANO: Hey, I got a good-looking weather across the center slice of the country.


MARCIANO: You know, if you didn't get enough of Van Halen.

HARRIS: There it is.


HARRIS: There it is some more.

MARCIANO: Because, you know, Tony, I don't know if you know this, but Catherine Callaway's a huge Van Halen fan.



HARRIS: I did not know that, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

CALLAWAY: Oh, no. Well, the secret is out now.

HARRIS: Well, now we know. We'll figure out a way to put her on the spot on that. Good to see you, Rob. Take care, have a great day, man.


HARRIS: And that is all of our time for CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

CALLAWAY: The news and "ON THE STORY" coming up next.



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