[an error occurred while processing this directive]


Return to Transcripts main page


JonBenet Murder Case Reopened; Triple Murder Trial; The Courageous Kelly McGillis

Aired October 4, 2010 - 21:00:00   ET


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Courtney Love tweeted a new photo of herself this weekend. Can I just say, celebrities need to stop over-sharing. I only tweeted a naked photo of myself once, but that`s a private matter between me and Karl Rove.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, cops reopen the 1996 JonBenet Ramsey murder case. Has new information led to a new round of interviews?

Then Courtney Love is the latest celeb to over-share on Twitter posting a near nude photo of herself. So do stars have a Twitter problem or are they just pre-empting the paparazzi?

Plus Kelly McGillis stops by for an interview since marrying her same- sex partner.

That and more starting right now.

BEHAR: Tonight, police in Boulder, Colorado continue to take a fresh look at the 1996 murder case of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey. They`ve already begun new interviews with potential witnesses, and one of the people on the list is JonBenet`s now 23-year-old brother Burke.

With me to discuss what all this means are Larry Schiller, contributor to "The Daily Beast and author of "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town"; and Craig Silverman, a criminal defense attorney and former Denver chief deputy district attorney. That`s quite a mouthful. Ok.

Larry, why are the authorities reopening the case? Do they have some new information?

LARRY SCHILLER, CONTRIBUTOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, you know, cold cases like this are looked at every two or three years, sometimes with fresh eyes. In 2009 there was an investigative committee, an advisory committee who looked through the case and made certain recommendations. Now the Boulder Police Department has gotten around to looking at those recommendations.

Burke is not the only witness they are looking at. You know, he was in the house. He was either asleep or awake at the time of this horrendous crime. But the short and long, there are many people they`re talking to. And you know, they`re looking at it with a little fresh look and maybe even new technology.

BEHAR: Craig, they`ve contacted the brother but why would the cops look to him for information now? He was 9 years old. Are they looking at him as a possible suspect?

SCHILLER: Number one, who says they`re looking at him for information? Maybe they`re looking at him to corroborate something. Maybe they`re looking at him to review something that he may have some knowledge of.

It doesn`t matter, you know, what they`re looking at him, he is only one of many people that are being looked at.

BEHAR: Craig, you agree with that? Craig?

CRAIG SILVERMAN, FORMER COLORADO PROSECUTOR: I do. And insofar as him being a suspect, Burke was only 9 years old. But remember his little sister was killed by a ligature, a fairly sophisticated garrote. Let`s remember the ransom note. I don`t think a 9-year-old could possibly be capable of that.

I think the police were right to long ago right exclude him as a suspect. But as Larry knows and he`s pointed out, he was in the house. Maybe he has some memories that will assist.

BEHAR: Yes. That`s true.

SCHILLER: And I think it`s more than that, too. You know, I think you have to understand that something may trigger his mind now which didn`t trigger it then because they didn`t have the evidence. Just because questions were unanswered then, that doesn`t mean somebody was withholding the answer.

BEHAR: That`s right. But in a way, I feel bad for the kid because they`re putting a spotlight on him. And it just kind of puts the spotlight back on the family. That`s rehashing this thing again.

SCHILLER: No, they`re not putting the spotlight on him. We are putting the spotlight on him; me by doing television and you by doing the broadcast.

BEHAR: Ok then.

SILVERMAN: Right. They did release the name. It`s interesting that they are starting to look at the JonBenet case. They have DNA evidence. That`s pretty good. And there`s a new prosecutor in town. Stan Garnet is a far cry from Alex Hunter (ph) and Mary Lacy (ph) . You remember Mary Lacy with that John Mark Carr fiasco.

Any prosecutor would regard solving the JonBenet Ramsey case as a tremendous achievement. In fact everybody in the world would like to see that case solved.

SCHILLER: And you know, this is a community that had virtually no crime in it, no bank robberies. This murder case came out of nowhere. The police were ill-equipped to handle it. It`s a shadow which lays over this community. They want to get out from underneath that shadow.

BEHAR: Yes. I mean the family was cleared as suspects in 2008 which was two years --

SILVERMAN: That was by Mary Lacy, though.


SILVERMAN: That was by Mary Lacy who took the case away from the Boulder Police. Mark Beckner (ph) is still around. He`s the guy who talked about the Ramseys being under an umbrella of suspicion. When we had Stan Garnet on our radio show, the new prosecutor, he did not confirm Mary Lacy`s statement that the Ramseys were in the clear. He said no comment. Now, that was interesting to me.

SCHILLER: And you know the other point is police departments don`t make the final decision of who should be prosecuted and whether somebody is innocent or guilty. They just bring the evidence to a district attorney. They may feel very strongly that this is the perpetrator of a crime or this person is part of a conspiracy, or this person has knowledge, but the ultimate decision on whether to prosecute is with either a state`s attorney general or the district attorney of the city in which the crime took place.


SILVERMAN: It`s interesting, yes. I mean --

BEHAR: Go ahead.

SILVERMAN: Joy, if I may, in terms of the attorney general, the new Boulder DA is running for attorney general. It doesn`t look like he`s going to win. No surprise he`s a democrat from Boulder. Bad time to be a Democrat in Colorado.

But he is ambitious. And if there`s a way to solve this case, Stan Garnet, the new DA, he`ll look into every avenue.

BEHAR: I just feel as though this family was dragged around for a long time.

SCHILLER: Well, that was partly their own fault because they went and hired a PR representative. They were somewhat ill-advised by certain attorneys. The short and long is they took the wrong road at the time of the crime. That doesn`t mean they were guilty, but it did point the finger at them because of the way they dealt with the police department.

BEHAR: Yes. Why did they do that? Why did they get a PR firm right away? It did make them look guilty. It made them look like they had to cover something up.

SCHILLER: Well, you have to remember this --


SCHILLER: Yes, go ahead.

SILVERMAN: I was just going to say, looking guilty is one thing but actually facing a court trial is quite another. I think their lawyers did a good job. They were never charged with anything in a court of law. Certainly the court of public opinion, but that`s changed, too.

A lot of people are thinking the Ramseys might have been among the worst victimized people in the history of America. Not only suffering the loss of their daughter, but all the accusations and innuendo that went with it.

SCHILLER: And you know, they`re represented by Lynn Wood who is a fine attorney who represents people that are victimized by the media and by the police department. He has settled several major claims that the Ramseys have had against the media and individuals.

BEHAR: So do you guys -- before I leave, do you both think that the killer is still out there? What is your opinion, Larry, or Craig?

SCHILLER: Well, I mean the facts are the facts. And they are that somebody perpetrated this crime. Whether the person is alive or dead, we don`t know. Whether the police will solve it by accident, by pure luck or by technology that may, in essence, give them the final decision.

BEHAR: All right. All right. Thank you, Larry.

I got go, thank you, Larry.

Craig, you stay right there. We`re going to continue with more. I want to turn to another story that we`ve been following today.

Jurors began deliberating in the case against Steven Hayes, one of the men accused of killing Jennifer Hawke-Petit and her two daughters during a 2007 home invasion in Connecticut.

Joining us at the courthouse is Beth Karas, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV. What`s the latest, Beth?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, good afternoon, good evening. The jurors have been deliberating since the afternoon. The judge is about to release them if they don`t have a verdict. But they`ve just come out with a note. The attorneys are in chambers and everyone`s on the edge of their seats thinking this could be it.

BEHAR: This case is so gruesome and upsetting that a lot of people think the jury will find it easy to return a fast guilty verdict. What do you think Beth?

KARAS: Well, I`ll tell you, the defense conceded that Steven Hayes committed most of the acts that he`s charged with. They simply said he did not intend to kill the two daughters, Haley and Michaela. Their deaths and the intent to cause their deaths are several elements of the crimes charged.

So the defense is trying to get some of the capital felonies -- and there are six of them -- off the table. But there`s no question that the right guys are arrested. It`s not like you got the wrong guy. It`s a mistake and --


BEHAR: He`s not denying culpability, is he?

KARAS: No. He admits that he killed Jennifer Hawke-Petit, the mother, and even admits that he raped her and that he committed burglary and arson and that he assisted in a lot of the other crimes. He admits all that. He`s trying to save his life.

BEHAR: What is his defense if there is any? And do we care?

KARAS: Well, the only thing his lawyer really focused on was putting it all on the other guy who`s going to be tried next year, Joshua Komisarjevsky, saying that he was the ringleader here, he was the master mind, my guy was just the follower. And it was Komisarjevsky who decided to be violent here. Steven Hayes was really just a two-bit burglar in the past. No history of this type of violence.

So he`s trying to pass the buck on to Komisarjevsky and also he said he never intended for the two daughters to die although he`s the one who poured the gasoline down the stairs which is their only means of escape if they were to break free of the bindings holding them to their beds.

BEHAR: Oh, my goodness.

So Craig, he`s just trying to avoid the death penalty, I think. Right? Are they going to get the death penalty? What do you think?


SILVERMAN: They have a good chance. It`s tough to get a unanimous verdict. I got one in Denver a while back, but it`s rare in Colorado, I imagine in Connecticut.

But this is a gruesome case. The facts are horrific and when you kill more than one person, those two beautiful daughters as well, I am certain that a majority of the jurors will say give him death.

Of course, the defense will talk about his poor upbringing, I`m sure dysfunctional family, a bunch of mitigating factors.

BEHAR: Oh -- the abuse excuse.

SILVERMAN: And look, I know it, Joy, but it is a very serious issue. It`s easy to spout off about capital punishment, but those jurors are sitting there with a life and death decision. They`ll take it real seriously and --

BEHAR: As they should -- as they should.

SILVERMAN: And you`ll be surprised at the emotions that come, right?

BEHAR: It`s important --

SILVERMAN: A lot of people have --

BEHAR: Yes ok.

SILVERMAN: -- reasonable people can disagree about the death penalty.

BEHAR: I know. But you just hate this case so much. You know? And you just want -- you just want them to be punished. What can I tell you?

Thanks, guys, very much.

SILVERMAN: Thank you.

BEHAR: Next, actress Kelly McGillis is here to talk about the bullying epidemic and the fight against breast cancer.



TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: We have been assuming 28 to 4G negative dive.

KELLY MCGILLIS, ACTRESS: Where did you see this?

CRUISE: That`s classified.

MCGILLIS: It`s what?

CRUISE: It`s classified. I can tell you, but then I`d have to kill you.

MCGILLIS: Lieutenant, I have top secret clearance. The Pentagon sees to it that I know more than you.

CRUISE: Well, ma`am, it doesn`t seem so in this case now, does it?


BEHAR: Kelly McGillis first rose to fame as a leading lady in such iconic films as "Top Gun" and "Witness." Now she`s narrating one event in a documentary that tells both the harrowing and the inspiring stories of cancer survivors like Melissa Etheridge and Olivia Newton-John. Take a look.


OLIVIA NEWTON-JOHN, CANCER SURVIVOR: The global burden of cancer will double by 2020 and triple by 2030.

MELISSA ETHERIDGE, CANCER SURVIVOR: One in eight American women will get diagnosed with breast cancer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, CANCER SURVIVOR: Cancer is the leading cause of death worldwide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Worldwide, over a million women are diagnosed with breast cancer every year.

BARBARA MORI, CANCER SURVIVOR: Regardless of color, regardless of nationality, regardless of religion.


BEHAR: With me now is the lovely Kelly McGillis. Kelly, I haven`t seen you around. Where have you been? What have you been doing?

MCGILLIS: Oh I`ve been doing lots of stuff. Raising kids.

BEHAR: A wife.

MCGILLIS: Yes, yes. Living my life.

BEHAR: Did you get out of showbiz pretty much?

MCGILLIS: Well, I did for a while because I -- I got sober, and then I decided that I wanted to be a full-time mom. And so that`s what I did.

BEHAR: So do you have to be drunk to want to be an actor?

MCGILLIS: No, but I was. That was my greatest coping mechanism.

BEHAR: What -- the stress was too much for you?

MCGILLIS: I don`t know. I think it`s a very complicated issue.


MCGILLIS: But part of it was I think, you know I never -- especially after "Top Gun" I never -- I never thought I would be famous. It never occurred to me. And I think that that was really a scary, scary thing for me.


But you were great in "Witness", too. I loved "Witness" -- it`s always running -- "Witness" is running on a loop. You see it all the time. In fact I was with the -- in Amish country over the weekend. And they`re quite an interesting crowd. They actually do walk around in those costumes.

MCGILLIS: Yes. I have some Amish friends.

BEHAR: Yes. Yes.

MCGILLIS: They`re still dressing like that.

BEHAR: And they have the horse and buggy just like it`s advertised.


BEHAR: It was quite interesting to see them up close. You know?

Now, you`re not a cancer survivor, right?

MCGILLIS: No, but my mother is and my grandmother died from breast cancer.

BEHAR: Oh so it`s in the family.

Do you worry that it`s a genetic thing?

MCGILLIS: Yes, I do.

BEHAR: You do. So what do you do about that?

MCGILLIS: I have a mammogram every year and every couple of years I have an MRI for it.

BEHAR: Ok. Now, the title "1 A Minute" comes from the -- the statistic that worldwide breast cancer claims the life of one woman every 69 seconds. So what is that -- what do you think the film would do? What will the film do in this case, how it would help?

MCGILLIS: Well, I hope that it will raise awareness. I hope it will help educate people how to help take care of themselves. You know that our health is our responsibility.

I don`t know why, but people -- I still get the impression that people kind of put off their health issues, thinking I`ll get to it later. And sometimes you don`t get an opportunity to later. I know for me, personal breast exam, I -- I`m very lax about that.

BEHAR: Oh yes.

MCGILLIS: I need to work -- get better at that.

BEHAR: Right.

MCGILLIS: So I hope it just helps remind us all that our health is our responsibility.

BEHAR: Right. And they keep changing the rules about when to get the breast -- the mammogram. It`s in your 40s now. When you`re 40 you should get one, the way they pretty much are saying it. Now, you also just got married to your long-time partner Melanie Leis.


BEHAR: Ok, congratulations.

MCGILLIS: Thank you.

BEHAR: It`s called a civil union in New Jersey, though. So do you -- do you think that -- isn`t gay marriage being legalized -- come on already with this?

MCGILLIS: Well, it`s being legalized then taken away.


MCGILLIS: And -- we wanted to get it done before this next wave of elections came in. And we`ve been together for a long, long time, for 11 years. So you know, yes, I would think it`s time now.

BEHAR: It is.

MCGILLIS: It`s time now -- it`s ok. We can talk about it now.


MCGILLIS: I think it`s --

BEHAR: Well, you came up in a time when you really couldn`t easily talk about it -- certainly not in the acting profession.

MCGILLIS: No. And I think that I had a lot of very -- I had some big personal struggles with my sexual identity. You know, when I was living here in New York, I was in college and I was living with a woman. And I was sexually assaulted.


MCGILLIS: And I believed that it was -- the story I created was it was because I was gay.

BEHAR: Really?

MCGILLIS: Yes and that -- I don`t know why I got that story, why I created that story. And I think it was a cultural thing.


MCGILLIS: You know that I was being punished. That`s what I did to cause that. And that took a long time to work out.

BEHAR: Really? Of course, I mean, when you have -- you know, people in religions, for example, saying that it`s a sin and it`s the wrong thing to do, of course, you`re going to internalize that when you`re a young person. Which causes a lot of this bullying and there`s a lot of bullying going on amongst young gay -- gay teenagers.

MCGILLIS: Terrible.

BEHAR: It`s just terrible.

Were you bullied as a child at all? Do you relate to that at all?

MCGILLIS: No, I was probably too big to be bullied.

BEHAR: I mean -- ok, we have to take a break. We`ll be back with more with Kelly McGillis.


BEHAR: I`m back with Kelly McGillis.

You know, Michael Douglas recently announced that he`s battling throat cancer. And he says that years of smoking and drinking were to blame. Now, I understand that you just quit smoking last Friday.

MCGILLIS: Actually, it`s four days.

BEHAR: Four days.

MCGILLIS: Four days. This is day four.

BEHAR: Do you feel edgy, jumpy -- are you nervous?

MCGILLIS: No. I don`t really actually. I don`t know what happened, but I don`t.

BEHAR: How long did you smoke?

MCGILLIS: 40 years.

BEHAR: Forty years. How much?

MCGILLIS: Ooh, gosh, a lot.

BEHAR: Really?

MCGILLIS: About 2 1/2 packs a day.

BEHAR: For 40 years?


BEHAR: You need -- you better get an x-ray, a lung x-ray.

MCGILLIS: I had one last year.

BEHAR: Are you ok?

MCGILLIS: Yes, I am ok.

BEHAR: That`s good.

MCGILLIS: But that`s not to say I will be ok forever.


Now, I have some Twitter questions from people. We like to do this on the show and include the audience in some of the things they`re interested in. Ok?

Here`s a funny one. "I read Tom Cruise had to stand on apple boxes and you had to slouch in your "Top Gun" scenes because he`s shorter than you. Is that true?

MCGILLIS: I`ll let you look at the poster.

BEHAR: So it`s true.

Let`s move on. You recently starred in an indie horror film called "Stakeland" (ph). But you said you`ll never watch it. Why not?

MCGILLIS: I don`t watch horror movies. They scare me. I like to sleep well at night. I tried to watch it up in Toronto. And I watched the first five minutes then I said it`s too graphic. And I have to leave.

BEHAR: What`s your favorite role, is it the one in "Top Gun"?

MCGILLIS: You know what? Actually my favorite is a theater role. Not a movie thing that I did.

BEHAR: Do you like stage acting?

MCGILLIS: Yes, I do.

BEHAR: Maybe you`ll do that now. That`s good to do.

MCGILLIS: Well, I`ve been doing it for all this time, too.

BEHAR: You have. Do a Broadway show.

MCGILLIS: I would like to.

BEHAR: Yes. Ok. I say that like an agent.

As a working actress, someone wants to know, why don`t you live in L.A. They`re very nosy. You live in New Jersey or someplace, right?

MCGILLIS: I do. Actually I live just outside of Philadelphia.

BEHAR: So --

MCGILLIS: I don`t know why I don`t -- that is a very good question because it`s a very long answer.


MCGILLIS: I do not like to define myself by what I do. And I find in L.A., you are defined by what you do.

BEHAR: And how you look.

MCGILLIS: Yes. And those two things horrify me. Just scare me. I don`t like that. I like to be able to get up and walk around. I have perfected the art of pajamas as street wear.

BEHAR: Right. You can walk out on the lawn that way. It`s great.

MCGILLIS: I can walk out. I walk, get up in the morning, throw my coat on and walk the dog in my pajamas. In L.A., I don`t know if I would feel comfortable doing that, but where I live, it`s A-OK.

BEHAR: Ok. Someone said you refuse to have plastic surgery or to dye your hair, true?

MCGILLIS: Kind of, yes. I don`t want to do plastic surgery, no. My hair at this point doesn`t even hold color any more in certain points, so like in here. So at some point, you have to just say, I now accept that I am gray.

BEHAR: You know, it looks blond to me, maybe in this light.

MCGILLIS: Well, no, it`s very gray. Here it`s actually white, white, white and if I dye it, it stayed colored for about a day then it goes away. So it`s just silly. At a certain point, you have to say, I give up.

BEHAR: Ok. Well, I don`t think you should give up. You`re still fabulous. You still look gorgeous and talented. I love your work.

MCGILLIS: Thank you.

BEHAR: Thanks very much, Kelly, for doing this.

MCGILLIS: Thank you.

BEHAR: "One a Minute" will be broadcast for one night only in 525 theaters around the country on Wednesday night. Go to www.oneaminute.com to find a theater near you.

Up next, Courtney Love is no stranger to overdoing it. And she`s the latest star to over-share on Twitter.


BEHAR: Rocker Courtney Love loves a good tweet. Well, who doesn`t? She apparently tweets an average of five times a day, sharing personal insights about her daughter and her late husband Kurt Cobain. And just a few days ago she treated her followers to this nearly nude photo of herself. I mean, isn`t there anyone out there to stop this woman? You know what I always say. Friends don`t let friends tweet drunk. I mean, what is with her? Here now to discuss this and other pop culture stories are Maureen O`Connor, staff writer for gawker.com, Patrick Warburton, star of "RULES OF ENGAGEMENT" and actress and entertainer, the fabulous Lainie Kazan.


BEHAR: OK do you tweet, you guys?

KAZAN: I don`t tweet.

BEHAR: You don`t.

KAZAN: I don`t tweet, but I wouldn`t take a picture like that. But you know she was called hole. That was the group she had, right.

BEHAR: Yes the hole.

KAZAN: Hole.

BEHAR: But it is such an ugly pose also.

KAZAN: It is terrible, vulgar.

MAUREEN O`CONNER, STAFF WRITER, GAWKER.COM: You know it`s really with twitter and stuff like that, there`s no filter now for a celebrity. Normally a publicist or somebody would step in and say you can`t send that picture to everybody. But you know she can go directly. And you know, her charm in being a train wreck. That`s what she does.

BEHAR: But do you think her publicist must have said, what you are doing?

KAZAN: I think so.

BEHAR: You think so.

O`CONNOR: I don`t know.

BEHAR: What do you think?

KAZAN: If she has a publicist.

O`CONNOR: I imagine.

PATRICK WARBURTON, STAR OF "RULES OF ENGAGEMENT": I think it`s pretty hot -- I mean gross.

KAZAN: Oh get out of here.

BEHAR: Is it? I mean it`s not really a great shot.

KAZAN: Does that really turn you on?

WARBURTON: No. Honestly, sort of it does in a perverse way, but I -- let`s not go there.

BEHAR: Well you know, Courtney`s -- also 40-something actresses Demi Moore and Lisa Rinna recently tweeted pictures of themselves wearing string bikinis. Now are they proud of their bodies do you think, or is it just pure and simple exhibitionism?

KAZAN: I think a little bit of both. I personally did an eight page layout in "Playboy" -

BEHAR: When?

KAZAN: In 1971.

BEHAR: Seventy one.

KAZAN: Yes but -

BEHAR: Can we get a copy of that? I`d like to see that.

KAZAN: Would you?

BEHAR: I would.

KAZAN: I did it because it was art. You know I swear to god. I was a hippie.


KAZAN: I didn`t think body was something to be not -- not even ashamed of but even to display. And I didn`t understand that men would be in their closets with my magazine.

BEHAR: Oh, sure, honey.

KAZAN: I had no concept of that. So I guess in some way it`s the same kind of thing.

WARBURTON: I`ve got some back issues.

KAZAN: Do you -- not `70s.

BEHAR: Patrick, do you read "Playboy" for the articles?



WARBURTON: Glance at the pictures.

BEHAR: You know a lot of this is over sharing, also. It`s like why do we need to hear all of this from people. The sun is shining.

KAZAN: Who`s interested?

BEHAR: Russell Crowe tweets ten times a day. I threw a toaster, tomorrow I`m thinking of throwing a toaster. What is he tweeting? What is he doing? Khloe Kardashian, 12 times a day. Paris Hilton, another brain trust, 7 times a day.

KAZAN: Maybe it`s like therapy for them. Maybe it is. Maybe their way of getting it off their chest.

O`CONNOR: Someone like the Kardashians or Paris Hilton, that is their entire career. It`s making people feel like I`m your friend. I`m on your reality TV. And for them, it`s their way of sort of having access to the people who like them 24 hours a day as though it was actually - you know --

KAZAN: I think it`s a little sick myself.

WARBURTON: I`m trying to figure out how I got here. I thought I was talking football at ESPN. And I`m -- this is --

KAZAN: Is this too fluffy for you?

BEHAR: It`s not too fluffy for him.

WARBURTON: Really? Come on.

BEHAR: What is he Kierkegaard over here? Let`s go to a sex survey. Maybe you`ll like this better.

WARBURTON: Oh, I`ll weigh in.

BEHAR: OK where is that? A new sex survey by Indiana University reports that men are performing oral sex on women far more than was originally thought.


BEHAR: Is there a red eye to Indiana Tonight? Hello. What do you think about that.

WARBURTON: I think that`s awesome. Personally, you`re asking what I like, Joy? I feel like -- I think that it`s important and, yes, important to sexuality. OK.

KAZAN: Weren`t there certain bugaboos on that in certain cultures?

BEHAR: Bugaboos?

KAZAN: Yes, like Italians.

BEHAR: Italians don`t like that.

KAZAN: They didn`t like that.

BEHAR: Are you sure?

KAZAN: I`m positive.


BEHAR: I don`t know. I always date Jewish men. So what I do know?

WARBURTON: Ladies I`m telling you, you don`t have a guy who does it, move on.

KAZAN: That`s true.

BEHAR: Probably that`s true. All right. I guess you don`t want to weigh in on that one.



BEHAR: Fine, whatever. Here`s one of the big findings that was interesting, 85 percent of men said their latest sexual part in had an orgasm while only 65 percent of women reported having the orgasm.

WARBURTON: Twenty percent of women are lying. Right?

BEHAR: The women are lying or - oh the men are lying.

WARBURTON: My wife has never faked it. And I`ve been with plenty of women who did.

KAZAN: But you can`t tell if they`re good actresses.

BEHAR: But I mean women fake it and men still thing that they`re not faking it. What is that about?

KAZAN: Oh to please the guy. Make him feel, you know, macho.

O`CONNOR: Maybe it`s like orgasm karaoke. You`re just singing along, joining in the fun. It`s not necessarily a mean faking thing. Just joining the fun, really, right?

BEHAR: Well should we say it, maybe we should say to the guy.

KAZAN: Listen, I`m going to make believe the greatest orgasm, right?

WARBURTON: I didn`t think I could get much more uncomfortable up here and now I have.

BEHAR: Would you like to leave?

KAZAN: Would you like to go in the back.

BEHAR: We allow -- we`re a free spirit show. You can leave if you want to leave.

WARBURTON: Let`s see where this goes.

BEHAR: All right why is there always a gender gap about orgasms? Because men have a perception about sex and women have another. Explain it to me. You`re a man. Let`s hear it.

WARBURTON: Well I think that we almost always have a good time. I don`t really get the faking it thing. But --

KAZAN: What? Men don`t fake it.

O`CONNOR: How can they fake it. They can`t fake it.

KAZAN: Well they can`t fake it.

BEHAR: I don`t think so.

KAZAN: Yes, I guess not.

BEHAR: OK a part of a study says that teens are currently using condoms more than adults. Isn`t that good?

O`CONNOR: That is.

KAZAN: Do you think that`s true?

BEHAR: That`s a study.

WARBURTON: What are the circumstances? Teens, you know, because they`re not in committed relationships usually and they really do need to do that protect themselves. And many adults who are in married, committed relationships shouldn`t have to.

BEHAR: Uh huh, right that`s true. But I think that teens have been notoriously not using safe sex and now they are.

KAZAN: Right, I think that`s great.


KAZAN: I just really do.

WARBURTON: Well aware of all the horrible things that are out there.

BEHAR: Of course, the survey was conducted by Trojans, the condoms company. So -- anyway that`s it.

KAZAN: I thought you were talking about 1500.

BEHAR: No. All right let`s talk about a new report is claiming that a judge thinks Britney Spears may only be 90 days away from being stable enough to run her own affairs and she`s only 12 days away from being stable enough to run for the senate in Delaware.


OK now, let`s talk about young people in show biz. She was under what they call a conservership or something where people told her what to do with her money. Now she`s free to do whatever -- do you think she can handle it?

KAZAN: I don`t know. These kids who become stars at 15 and 16 years old and never really deal with anything -- any reality of life have a real hard time. Fame, fortune.

BEHAR: Well you were young when you started.

KAZAN: I was very young. And I had my own breakdowns. I did. But I did them in private. Now, whatever happens in your life --

BEHAR: Except for the "Playboy" spread.

KAZAN: Exactly. That little moment. But after that.

BEHAR: Would you do it again? Would you pose for "Playboy" now, if you were young and beautiful?

KAZAN: If I had the same body?


KAZAN: I don`t know. Probably not. I just -- I was so busy getting out of the Barbra Streisand image, I was going to do anything. I said, you know what? She can`t do this and won`t. So I will do it.

BEHAR: Oh I didn`t know that.

KAZAN: It had a lot to do with that.

BEHAR: Did you know that, Patrick?

O`CONNOR: He doesn`t care.

BEHAR: I`ve learned a lot about Lainie today.

BEHAR: Have you woken up -- are you still napping or are you --

WARBURTON: I just -- I was just getting ready to defer.

O`CONNOR: Yes, I do think it`s true that there are so many of these young women who grew up in the spotlight. It`s meaningful that Lindsay Lohan has so many problems and Brittany Spears have so many problems and you know it`s interesting to me that we see a lot of these young female stars that have a really hard time growing up. And I don`t think we see it as much with young male stars.

KAZAN: I don`t know about that.

BEHAR: Well there was suicide.

KAZAN: Oh suicide -

O`CONNOR: That`s true.

KAZAN: Kurt Cobain.

BEHAR: That was sad. Thanks, everyone, very much.

KAZAN: Oh you`re so very welcome.

BEHAR: OK check out Lainie Kazan at Feinstein`s in New York October fifth through ninth and you can see the fabulous Patrick Warburton on "RULES OF ENGAGEMENT" Mondays at 8:30 eastern on CBS. He`ll be awake for that, back in a minute.


BEHAR: Republican senate candidate and tea party favorite Christine O`Donnell is now battling back against accusations that she lied on more than one online resume. There`s a quote. "There have been reports that I have released false information on a Linkedin profile under my name. This is categorically untrue. I`ve always been clear about my educational background." Admittedly, she`s an easy target for comedy but could she also be a useful target for the GOP? Here now to discuss this and much more are Dana Milbank, writer for "The Washington Post" and author of "Tears of a Clown: Glenn Beck And The Tea Bagging Of America." and Bill Press, radio talk show host and author of "Toxic Talk." That`s a funny title. You know what tea bagging actually is, don`t you?


BEHAR: Just asking. All right.

BILL PRESS, AUTHOR, "TOXIC TALK": Can I tell him? It`s what you put in a mug.

BEHAR: So Dana, over the weekend, I was reading Frank Rich yesterday. And he has a column, very, very good column that says that Christine O`Donnell is a useful idiot for the GOP basically. Because she says such dumb things and crazy things, they can use her as a cover for their agenda, these billionaires and corporate interests can promote their agenda while people are making fun of her. What do you say to that?

MILBANK: Well I think he`s got the idiot part right. The useful is subject to some debate and that`s because he`s assuming that they`ve masked this in some ways. I think this has been going on with the tea party movement all along. If you look at it, these are not sort of poor, jobless people. These are wealthy, white affluent people who are going to these rallies. You know the leader of the movement I write about, Glenn Beck talks about being a schmo and a schlub, living in a subdivision and then he goes home to this $8 million home in New Canaan with Gates around it. And his $32 million a year in annual revenue.

BEHAR: It`s interesting how they can fool people so easily. People who need Social Security, people who need Medicare and health insurance. How do they do it?

PRESS: Because some of these people, I hate to say it, are just ignorant about what`s really going on. I mean the classic is Donna Shalala told me this story. They went to -- in Hillary`s day, this is before tea party as such. Went to some town hall meeting and some guy stood up, and said I don`t care what you do. Just keep the government out of my Medicare. So these guys don`t realize where they`re coming from. I have to though say about Christine O`Donnell. I grew up in Delaware. And I like Frank Rich`s column, but sometimes you can be just so far out there, so zany, so loony --

BEHAR: Who are you talking about, Frank Rich?

PRESS: No, I`m talking about Christine O`Donnell.

BEHAR: Christine, yes.

PRESS: I mean she`s just a monumental embarrassment. This latest thing that she has privy information that China --

BEHAR: Yes, yes, oh, yes. That china was going to take over the United States. She said that in 2006.


BEHAR: Where did she get that information?

PRESS: But think of this though. Who owns our debt today.

BEHAR: China.

MILBANK: There you go, China -

BEHAR: So she`s not so crazy as we`re thinking? All right but she`s accused of misusing campaign funds. Now isn`t that against the law, first of all, if it`s true?

MILBANK: Well right and she was her own campaign treasurer which is another thing that`s against the law.

PRESS: I suspect it`s not a campaign finance violation that will bring her down, it`s something about the masturbation comments or the witchcraft. There`s a whole series of --

BEHAR: You think so, what about the lying about her education? She says she got her degree in 1993. She got it last year. Right there, that`s a lie.

MILBANK: She said she went to Oxford University it turns out it was Phoenix that happen to be at Oxford.

BEHAR: Right.

PRESS: And I just want to say, as someone who learned to masturbate in Delaware, you know, this gets personal with me.

MILBANK: That`s getting down into witchcraft right there.

BEHAR: Yes a little TMI there, Bill. Now, if they win and take over the House and the Senate and slash spending as they`ve promised, OK, the GOP, what will it mean for the country and will the people realize that the GOP is not actually on their side? At that point?

MILBANK: I suspect it`s such a huge if to say that`s going to happen, even if they are able to take back both chambers the Congress, it is going to be - by such a narrow majority that they are not going to be able to get away with anything.

PRESS: Right.

MILBANK: But yes, I mean they have a lot of support behind there because they`re saying we`re against Obama, we are against this, you know.


MILBANK: And a lot of people angry in the country now. And so there`s they have a lot of strength in there. But once you start to govern, well here`s my program and I`m going to do this to Medicare, to Social Security, and cut this program that you love. And cut the Pentagon --

BEHAR: That`s what they`re basically going to have to do, right?


BEHAR: Because they want to keep the ringleaders straight. They want to keep the Bush tax cuts which means that we go back to the Bush years of huge deficit. Right, they say they won`t cut military. They won`t cut -- what else won`t they cut, the GOP?

PRESS: First of all, they`re not going to --

BEHAR: Well they`re going to have to cut something.

PRESS: They`re not going to cut anything, if you ask me. First of all, I think Rand Paul and Sharron Angle and Christine O`Donnell are unelectable. But if god forbid, they got into office, get rid of Social Security, it`s not going to happen. Get rid of Medicare, that won`t happen.

BEHAR: Well then what`s their plan then? What are they going to do to reduce the deficit that they keep crying about?

PRESS: You know what they`ll do, in my judgment, they`ll do the same thing the conservatives did under George W. Bush. Again if god forbid they got in power, they would just pile on the deficit and, like Cheney said then, deficits don`t matter. So they would back to being spenders.

BEHAR: The American population just sits back and takes that?

MILBANK: Well they haven`t been tolerating it so far. Be interesting if their own people are doing it. The alternative to say freeze spending at levels two years ago. That`s you know, a 5 percent or 10 percent cut. In the abstract, that sounds fine but when you say it is taking money out of your pocket or food stamps or whatever popular program.

PRESS: Good point, T.A.R.P.. The tea party was born in anger at the bailout of Wall Street.

BEHAR: Which was under Republicans.

PRESS: Under George Bush.

BEHAR: Right.

PRESS: I was against it too at the time. But they said this is a classic case of wasteful government spending. Today over the weekend we learned, right, that T.A.R.P.. Actually is going to probably pay for itself. It saved us from going over the cliff in the economy and we might even make money on T.A.R.P.. So the whole basis for their anger is totally misguided.

BEHAR: Right OK, we`re going to continue this conversation in just a minute. So stay right there.

NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hello, hello. Stay with us friends, we are seeking justice.


BEHAR: I`m back with my political panel. You know, this guy Carl Paladino who is running for governor in New York State, he`s very thuggish and angry, this guy. He`s a very rich white guy. What is he so mad about?


BEHAR: What is he so angry about.

PRESS: I will tell you why. Because he had an affair and he thinks everybody else on the planet had an affair, if he had an affair, so therefore Andrew Cuomo had an affair, damn it, and I don`t have to prove it. All I have to do is say it.

BEHAR: He retracted, he apologize but now --

PRESS: Now he says he`ll give the proof.

BEHAR: He`s going to have proof, what proof is he going to have?

MILBANK: He retracted the retraction and there are calls on him to retract the retraction of the retraction.


MILBANK: He`s good.

BEHAR: The worst thing about him is not the mistress. Who cares really? I mean we live in this country now and after Bill Clinton all bets are off, right? But the e-mails he forwarded, the racist and sexist e- mails showed bad judgment and a very bad person, I think.

PRESS: I think he`s misguided, you know, he`s an unguided missile. You know anger is one thing, but when totally out of control like he is, can you imagine him in Albany? I`d be worse than Rahm Emanuel at a cabinet meeting.

BEHAR: OK let`s talk about, thank you for bringing him up.

PRESS: You like that segue?

BEHAR: Now, he`s officially out. He`s going to be running for mayor of Chicago. Right? So was he pushed out or did he actually -- does he really want to run for mayor?

MILBANK: No he was cleared, in fact even when Daley was still not saying he was going to leave, Rahm was saying how much he wanted the job, hint, hint. No this was definitely done on his own volition. I think Obama will miss him. He was a tough guy.

BEHAR: Yes but he got a lot of criticism when he was in --

MILBANK: Got a lot of criticism for what he indelicately called the professional Left. But he also, you know, when you look at Obama`s record, he got a lot of abuse for it but he got a lot of things through, from health care right on through.

BEHAR: That`s true.

PRESS: It was his style, he had a way of offending people. The only Chief in history that had his own Press Secretary.

BEHAR: I never heard that.

MILBANK: He is his own Press Secretary.

PRESS: Correct.

BEHAR: What about this guy Rouse? He seems to be the antithesis of Rahm`s personality.

MILBANK: Very quiet but beloved by the staff in the White House, very popular on Capitol Hill. So he is sticking with an insider, but one that doesn`t have so many rough edges.

PRESS: One of the both respected people on both sides of the aisle in Washington, by the way, was called the 101st senator when he was Tom Daschle`s chief of staff. He`s been with Obama since Obama was senator elect. And he is a guy that really does -- I hate to use that phrase, makes the trains run on time but he does and doesn`t take any credit for it and he doesn`t want any credit. Friday at the briefing with Robert Gibbs, one reporter, I forgot who it was now, raised her hand and said something about I wanted to get in line for the first interview with Pete Rouse. And Robert Gibbs said, I talked to him before I came out here, there will be no interviews of anybody period with Pete Rouse.

BEHAR: Oh really?

MILBANK: That doesn`t surprise me. I suspect it will be that way for a long time.

BEHAR: Now Robert Gibbs, they`re talking about him becoming the chairman of the DNC. And Axelrod`s are going to go do some other job.

MILBANK: Yes, Larry Summers is gone.

BEHAR: Summers is gone.

MILBANK: The National Security adviser will be gone.

BEHAR: Is this similar to when Reagan did this?

PRESS: Michelle Obama`s staying.


BEHAR: She is.

PRESS: For now.

BEHAR: Remember when Reagan shuffled everything because his numbers were in the toilet.

MILBANK: I won`t call it shuffle because it happens for a variety of reasons. It will give them a chance for new blood. They`ve been beaten down.

BEHAR: Will that help them do you think?

MILBANK: Sure I think.

PRESS: You know one of those jobs for two years? Talk about burnout. I mean there are 18 hours a day, seven days a week. And about two years is all you can take.

BEHAR: OK before we go, just yes or no, are the Republicans going to take over the House?

MILBANK: The House, not the Senate.

BEHAR: The house not the senate.

PRESS: Neither one. Democrats hold on to the House.

BEHAR: Hope Springs eternal from Bill Press. Thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody. Don`t forget to vote. I have to remind people to vote.


[an error occurred while processing this directive]